FINANCIAL LIFE PLANNING

Mitch Anthony

What the legendary planning thought leader had to say about money .

WAS RECENTLY GOING THROUGH MY ARCHIVES AND CAME across some recordings I had done with Dick Wagner almost 15 years ago for a recording we were calling “ Money Dialogue .” Dick , who passed away five years ago , wrote for Financial Advisor and was a recognized thought leader in financial planning . But he was more than that — he was also a truly seminal soul and thinker . He flew out to my home in Rochester , Minn ., and we sat and talked all things money for three days . Suffice it to say , I ’ ve never found a richer conversation in all my life . His comments are timeless , and I think worth sharing with you .

Mitch Anthony : Dick , your lifetime has been allocated to exploring a lot of topics : theology , jurisprudence , and all things related to financial planning as a profession . I think this unique background might be part of the reason that led you to declare that money is the most powerful secular force on the planet .

I believe that I ’ m safe in saying that no one that I know of in our present age has put more thought , more heart and more sweat of the soul into the topic of money and how it impacts our lives individually and collectively . In our conversation , we ’ re going to explore this force — its potential , its shortcomings , and its mysteries . Dick , welcome to the “ Money Dialogue .” Dick Wagner : Thanks , Mitch . It ’ s good to be here . Mitch : It ’ s interesting that in previous conversations , the topic came up between us that money is really not about money . I ’ ve heard it said that money might be the world ’ s most prominent metaphor — it always seems

“ Money is both secular and spirit , so it ’ s not at all odd that it would relate to our personal spirits ... It is the second-most talked about topic in the Bible .”

— Dick Wagner to stand for something other than itself .

Dick : Well , money is both secular and spirit , so it ’ s not at all odd that it would relate to our personal spirits . There ’ s that part of it . It is the second-most talked about topic in the Bible . It engages our days . It is how we spend our time as human beings and it ’ s how we work with each other . It is , I think , the world ’ s most powerful self-organizing force — and it is part of what human beings do . It ’ s an interesting phenomenon . On top of that , we add that it ’ s a 21st century survival skill . Then on top of that , we add that it ’ s still a taboo topic that we ’ re not allowed to talk about . We talk about what it does , but we don ’ t talk about what it is .

Mitch : Maybe that ’ s a good leaping off point for the whole concept here of these money dialogues : that there is a taboo nature around money . I remember hearing a psychologist tell of a therapy session with a couple who were having marital problems . They talked freely about their sexual lives — without shame or embarrassment or the need of a fig leaf . When he brought up money , they both raised their hands and said , “ We ’ re not going there .” What does that tell us about our society and our culture ?

Dick : It tells us that we need to go there . [ chuckles ] It ’ s what I suggested . I suspect that in terms of their own difficulties , money had an awful lot to do with it . I ’ ve read accounts that suggest that there are essentially three rea-

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